EDUDEAF: Defining Bilingual - Bicultural Education; A Discussion

Key Words: Deaf Education Information, Deafness Related Issues, Deaf Education

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Subj: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-12 20:31:10 EST
From: semesky@EROLS.COM (Linda Semesky)
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Are there any schools out there that teach deaf/hoh children bilingually, defined as:

The children are taught using both sign and voice and the students voice and sign in return...either Signed English or ASL. Our state school for the deaf claims to offer a bilingual education. However, upon closer examination, we've found out that bilingual to them means that instruction is offered using ASL and the children are given speech therapy. Not very bilingual in my opinion. Are there any schools that are doing it differently than the way we are defining it? We're kind of in a hard spot. We've got an oral child who needs sign due to reasons too complicated to go into. Most of the oral programs around here refuse to use sign because the theory is that the child then isn't forced to maximize his potential to process auditory information. Anyone using both? If so, how is it implemented? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Linda S

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-12 20:53:58 EST
From: NIKKIEKLE@AOL.COM (Nikki DeMers)
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Linda Semesky,

As for bilingual education, it is possible to have both at same time (S.E.E. and voice) because Signed Exacted English will follow spoken English by the word. But for ASL, it should be separated because ASL and spoken English will hurt each other for keeping the language same. ASL is a visual-gestural language...Spoken English is not a visual language, and it is "sound" language. I agree with you about bi-bi education... that a whole campus the employees use ASL all the time... during the class, two teachers work together as a team..one Deaf and one Hearing work with the children who are Deaf and Hard of Hearing.. It is a dream.. Maybe I am wrong. I have a big question about pulling the child out of the class for speech lessons or during the classroom the speech teacher comes in and works with the classroom teacher during speech activity.. All of the children will learn two different languages. Again, I would love to see the children who have their ability to lipread or speechread... if they use their hearing aids, they need to learn how to identify the sounds (knock, ring from the phone, etc)... since their parents want their children to wear the hearing aids. Why do the children wear their hearing aids if they don't receive their auditory training? At my Deaf school, I have five little kids age from 4 to 5 and wear the hearing aids. The speech & language pathologist comes in and work with me to do the activities (identify the sounds, learn how to exhale/inhale for saying simple word: choo, blow the wind, etc.) They develop their speechreading skills when they are grown up. If they don't receive their speech & auditory training, they will lose their ability.. Now, I am still learning about that ... even I teach for 14 yrs..

Nikki DeMers
Vancouver, Washington

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-12 21:26:24 EST
From: CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Cathy Brandt)
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On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:29:54 -0500 Linda Semesky said: process auditory information. Anyone using both? If so, how is it implemented? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

In my classroom I speak with my voice and sign what I say. I add endings to the signs and sign nearly 100% of what I say.

Cathy

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-12 21:39:15 EST
From: dhag@MTSI.COM (DeLores)
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At 08:52 PM 1/12/97 -0500, Nikki DeMers wrote: >Linda Semesky, > >As for bilinqual education, it is possible to have both at same time (S.E.E. and voice) because Signed Exacted English will follow spoken English by the word. But for ASL, it should be separated because ASL and spoken English will hurt each other for keeping the language same. ASL is a visual-gestural language...Spoken English is not visual language, and it is "sound" language.

Nikki, do you know what 'system' Oregon Deaf School is using now? Do you consider your school to be bi-bi??

DeLores Wilson
dhag@mtsi.com
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-12 21:45:42 EST
From: dhag@MTSI.COM (DeLores)
Sender: EDUDEAF@LSV.UKY.EDU (A Practical Discussion List Regarding Deaf Education)
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At 09:23 PM 1/12/97 EST, Cathy Brandt wrote: >On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:29:54 -0500 Linda Semesky said: process auditory information. Anyone using both? If so, how is it implemented? Any info would be greatly appreciated! > >In my classroom I speak with my voice and sign what I say. I add endings to the signs and sign nearly 100% of what I say. > >Cathy >

You are using SEE then and not ASL?

DeLores Wilson
dhag@mtsi.com
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-12 22:07:21 EST
From: dr.j@RDZ.STJOHNS.EDU (Jay Lucker)
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Dear Linda,

It seems to me that what you are talking about is not bilingual education but total communication - the use of both sign language and speech.

dr.j!

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-12 22:20:15 EST
From: CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Cathy Brandt)
Sender: EDUDEAF@LSV.UKY.EDU (A Practical Discussion List Regarding Deaf Education)
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On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:47:07 -0600 DeLores said: > >You are using SEE then and not ASL?

Exactly

Cathy

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 00:19:41 EST
From: NIKKIEKLE@AOL.COM (Nikki DeMers)
Sender: EDUDEAF@LSV.UKY.EDU (A Practical Discussion List Regarding Deaf Education)
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Delores,

No, my school has not adopted bi-bi education yet because many staff does not understand what it is clearly.. vague. I wish my shcool would adopt it.

Nikki

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 00:28:33 EST
From: dhag@MTSI.COM (DeLores)
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At 12:01 AM 1/13/97 -0500, Nikki DeMers wrote: Delores, No, my school has not adopted bi-bi education yet because many staff has not understand what it is clearly.. vague. I wish my shcool would adopt it. Nikki

Did I understand you to say that in a true bi-bi school there would be two teachers, one using ASL and one using English?? What constitutes a bi-bi program??

DeLores Wilson
dhag@mtsi.com
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 01:24:39 EST
From: careyp@earthlink.net (Phillip & Susan Carey)
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Nikki DeMers wrote:
> Linda Semesky,
> As for bilinqual education, it is possible to have both at same time (S.E.E. and voice) because Signed Exacted English will follow spoken English by the word. But for ASL, it should be separated because ASL and spoken English will hurt each other for keeping the language same. ASL is a visual-gestural language...Spoken English is not visual language, and it is "sound" language.

I agree with you 100%. My question is what do we do when we have children in the room who benefit from audio imput and other children who have no hearing at all. The teacher should speak but as you say, that causes a conflict with ASL, which is easily understood by the profoundly deaf students.

> I agree with you about bi-bi education... that a whole campus the employees use ASL all the time... during the class, two teachers work together as a team..one Deaf and one Hearing work with the children who are Deaf and Hard of Hearing.. It is a dream.. Maybe I am wrong.

Our district doesn't have the money to pay for two teachers. We are lucky to have aides. Are all classes divided by age group? Are there any small programs out there that divide their students by hearing ability? (i.e. HoH in TC class, Deaf in ASL class)

> They develop their speechreading skills when they are grown up. If they don't receive their speech & auditory training, they will lose their ability.. Now, I am still learning about that ... even I teach for 14 yrs..

I've always wondered...are there many deaf adults who were raised without speech who later decide to go to speech & auditory training? What are the success rates? Anyone have any papers on this subject?

Susan Carey
Interpreter

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 08:18:43 EST
From: SMSD2@AOL.COM (David R. Updegraff)
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Linda: I assume that the state school for the deaf you refer to is the Maryland School for the Deaf. As I understand it, they are using what is called a "bilingual-bicultural" approach to instruction. That is, they utilize ASL for "through the air" communication, and use reading and writing to teach English. This is based on an assumption that ASL is the first language of deaf children (I am not arguing for or against that assumption -- simply informing!). What you are describing is an approach which many call "simultaneous communication," or, speaking and signing English at the same time. Some call the latter approach "Total Communication," although I have a different definition of that.

Definitional accuracy is not the critical thing here, I think; what is critical is you finding the appropriate program for your child. I do not know the local programs in Maryland, but am aware that the Montgomery County Program is quite large and varied in their approaches. Towson is a suburb of Baltimore, I think, so that's probably not much help. You might wish to contact them as a resource, however. The Program Director is Sheila Doctors, TEL: 301-279-4969.. (I am not sure if that is one of the areas in Maryland which changed to the 410 Area Code). Hope this helps.

David R. Updegraff
smsd2@aol.com

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Subj: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 07:07:01 EST
From: habla@NEWTON.DIALIX.COM.AU (Henry Blackmore)
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Linda Semesky (12 Jan 1997) asked: Are there any schools out there that teach deaf/hoh children bilingually, defined as: The children are taught using both sign and voice and the students voice and sign in return...either Signed English or ASL. Our state school for the deaf claims to offer a bilingual education...

To understand the philosophy and practice of bilingual education for deaf children, I would recommend reading Shawn Mahshie's book "Educating Deaf Children Bilingually". It is obtainable from the Gallaudet University Bookstore.

Teaching spoken and written English and also Signed English is not, by definition, bilingualism. Rather it is bimodal teaching of English only. Signed English is not a second or other language - it is manually- coded English.

However, teaching and using English and also a Sign language (such as ASL) is teaching and using two distinct languages - hence bi-lingual. Just like teaching and using English and also French or Spanish, with which experience many Americans will be familiar in some states.

A couple of months ago, a similar thread on EDUDEAF obtained the following list of American bilingual schools. Check with any of these:

I can't vouch for all of these schools and there may be others using the bilingual method in teaching deaf children. I would be interested to receive corrections, amendments and additions.

Harry Blackmore

Dr Harry Blackmore
+61 9 245 1474 Mail: 43 Newborough St, Scarborough, Western Australia 6019

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 19:50:01 EST
From: coates@PACBELL.NET (Jack and Laurel Coates)
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Dear David (and Linda):

I am a student interesetd in becoming a teacher for the Deaf. I am *very* interested in the bi-bi method. I soon discovered, however, that there are few universities in the U.S that have adopted this method in their teacher training: Boston University and Western Maryland College are the only ones that I know of. You may want to contact WMC for other information they have on schools in Maryland that follow the bi-bi philosophy.

Laurel

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 20:07:06 EST
From: semesky@EROLS.COM (Linda Semesky)
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Laurel wrote: You may want to contact WMC for other information they have on schools in Maryland that follow the bi-bi philosophy.

You know, I don't know why I haven't thought of it! I need to go up to Western Maryland and get some info! I got my undergrad degree in Economics there and that's where I learned to sign....eons ago..I took notes in American History for a deaf man getting his Master's in Deaf Ed...I couldn't communicate with him so I took two semesters of sign! They could sure direct me in the right direction as they're placing teachers and therefore would know alot about what's out there!

Thanks for jogging my thinking!

Linda S

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 20:13:37 EST
From: semesky@EROLS.COM (Linda Semesky)
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To: EDUDEAF@LSV.UKY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list EDUDEAF)

At 08:17 AM 1/13/97 -0500, you wrote: Linda: I assume that the state school for the deaf you refer to is the Maryland School for the Deaf. As I understand it, they are using what is called a "bilingual-bicultural" approach to instruction. That is, they utilize ASL for "through the air" communication, and use reading and writing to teach English.

Yes, I am talking about the Md School for the Deaf...the way they explained Bi-bi to me was that everything was taught in ASL and then the kids go to speech therapy.

What you are describing is an approach which many call "simultaneous communication," or, speaking and signing English at the same time. Some call the latter approach "Total Communication," although I have a different definition of that.

In our county they call it total communication, but in reality, it seems to be straight sign used with profoundly deaf kids...the teacher may voice some, but they don't hear her usually so they are not really getting auditory input. If you place a hoh child in that environment they get no speech modeling from their peers. The oral approach is totally oral...no signing allowed.

>Definitional accuracy is not the critical thing here, I think; what is critical is you finding the appropriate program for your child. I do not know the local programs in Maryland, but am aware that the Montgomery County Program is quite large and varied in their approaches.

I will be checking out Montgomery County's approach as Baltimore County doesn't seem to have a clue as to how to accomodate a hoh child with Alex's needs. Thanks for the contact. I will give her a call for suggestions. It will be of benefit because it is another Maryland County and can be used as a model for suggesting modifications for Alex's program.

Thanks again for the information!

Linda S

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-13 22:37:36 EST
From: jleary@SOPHIA.SMITH.EDU (Jill Leary)
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Hi - I am doing my internship at Willie Ross School for the Deaf in Longmeadow, MA. The program that I am currently in uses both sign and speech at the same time. The teacher and the students both sign and speak at the same time throughout the school day. There are both hard of hearing and deaf kids. In my class there are ten students, two teachers of the deaf, one full time interpreter, one part time interpreter and a speech teacher. If you would like more information then please let me know!

Jill Elizabeth Leary
MED Student Clarke-Smith
168 Madison Ave, Holyoke, MA

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-14 00:43:53 EST
From: Mbeany@AOL.COM
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Linda S, wrote regrading bilingual education:

Are there any schools out there that teach deaf/hoh children bilingually, defined as: The children are taught using both sign and voice and the students voice and sign in return...either Signed English or ASL. Our state school for the deaf claims to offer a bilingual education. However, upon closer examination, we've found out that bilingual to them means that instruction is offered using ASL and the children are given speech therapy. Not very bilingual in my opinion. Are there any schools that are doing it differently the way we are defining it? We're kind of in a hard spot. We've got an oral child who needs sign due to reasons too complicated to go into. Most of the oral programs around here refuse to use sign because the theory is that the child then isn't forced to maximize his potential to process auditory information. Anyone using both? If so, how is it implemented? Any info would be greatly appreciated! Linda S

Bilingual education according to some experts in deafness means signing in ASL and writing English. There is no emphasis on speech since speech by itself is not a language. It is more important to write English than speak it. I used to live in Maryland and do not know of any state programs. However, I would say that Montgomery County and Price Geogr'es county will offer what you want. You would have to live in those counties however. Montgomery County has oral, TC and ASL, and Cued speech programs.

Mike Bienenstock
Mbeany@aol.com

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-14 14:18:11 EST
From: r_weiner@SACAM.OREN.ORTN.EDU (Roselle_Weiner)
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Hello!!!
Happy New Year....the grump in residence is back. . . hope everybody is ok...Cathy, dear, the way you describe your own signing is a physical impossibility or you are signing so slowly that the message is distorted by the lack of speed. This has been commented on repeatedly. This is NOT directed at you...but anyone who uses SEE type signing and thinks they are accurately representing English.

wooosh....we are off to the 21st century...do you think we might ever reach agreement on these issues?

all best,
Roselle
American School for the Deaf
r_weiner@sacam.oren.ortn.edu

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-14 18:50:44 EST
From: jdelcont@SOPHIA.SMITH.EDU (Jennifer Del Conte)
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I am also doing my internship at Willi Ross. The school caters to whatever best suits the needs of the students. Some students are extremely oral while others are fluent ASL users. The teachers sign exact english. This is so because of the mainstream readings and the trade materials they use.

Jennifer A. Del Conte
Smith College/ Clarke School M.E.D. Program
47 Round Hill Road
Northampton, MA 01060
(413)582-0796
jdelcont@sophia.smith.edu

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-14 20:03:35 EST
From: dehahn@TIAC.NET (Christofer deHahn)
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At 11:05 PM 1/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear Linda, >
It seems to me that what you are talking about is not bilingual education by total communication - the use of both sign language and speech.
>dr.j!
>

The more accurate term is "simultaneous communication" or simcom. Total Communication approaches vary, not all are simcom.

Chris

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-14 20:15:22 EST
From: dehahn@TIAC.NET (Christofer deHahn)
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At 12:42 AM 1/14/97 -0500, Mike Bienenstock wrote:

Bilingual education accroding to some experts in deafness means signing in ASL and writing English. There is no emphasis on speech since speech by itself is not a language. It is more important to write English than speak it.

For you maybe, but not for an awful lot of deaf people.

Chris

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-14 20:48:06 EST
From: dhag@MTSI.COM (DeLores)
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At 06:49 PM 1/14/97 -0500, Jennifer Del Conte wrote: I am also doing my internship at Willi Ross. The school caters to whatever best suits the needs of the students. Some students are extremely oral while others are fluent ASL users. The teachers sign exact english. This is so because of the mainstream readings and the trade materials they use.

So, are the students who are fluent ASL users able to communicate with teachers who are fluent ASL users through the air? I am curious as to how students become fluent ASL users (unless they are deaf of deaf) if they never have teachers who are fluent in ASL?

Do you not have any students who are skilled orally and also fluent ASL users?

DeLores Wilson
dhag@mtsi.com
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA

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Subj: Re: Bilingual Education
Date: 97-01-16 16:22:35 EST
From: jdelcont@SOPHIA.SMITH.EDU (Jennifer Del Conte)
Sender: EDUDEAF@LSV.UKY.EDU (A Practical Discussion List Regarding Deaf Education)
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To: EDUDEAF@LSV.UKY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list EDUDEAF)

With my class at Willi Ross, the ASL signers are able to communicate effectively with their teachers who are primarily SEE signers. There does not seem to be any breakdown in communication. The oral students can sign and do with their classmates who use ASL. Their signing is more SEE. The oral students seem to have a better command of the English language and grammar then their ASL classmates (this is just my observation with this program!). The bottom line is that there is a lot of respect among the students and staff. All communicate effectively and well with each other.

Jennifer A. Del Conte
Smith College/ Clarke School M.E.D. Program
47 Round Hill Road
Northampton, MA 01060
jdelcont@sophia.smith.edu

Uploaded by: B.J. Lawrence/ Kent State University/ Deaf Education Major